AC Discussion | Meet Me Where You Are (Or, How Not To Starve An Artist)
On December 11th, Amanada Huckins, Alex Jochim, Joseph Orzal, Bilgesu Sisman, Marcey Yates, and Rachel Ziegler sat down to talk about how artists and arts workers in three different cities are making space, making a living, and enacting more just modes of co-existence. They discussed navigating alternative models of economic organization and building resilience in the face of precarity and the uncertain future of arts funding.
Click here to listen to a recording of the full conversation or read an abridged transcript with links to more resources below.
Title of Discussion: Meet Me Where You ARe (Or, How Not To Starve An Artist)
Panelist 1: Alex Jochim
Panelist 2: Joseph Orzal
Panelist 3: Marcey Yates,
Panelist 4: Rachel Ziegler
Moderator 1: Amanda Huckins
Moderator 2: Bilgesu Sisman
Date of Discussion: October 18th, 2024
List of Acronyms: [AJ] = Alex Jochim; [JO] = Joseph Orzal; [MY] = Marcey Yates; [RZ] = Rachel Rachel Ziegler; [AH] = Amanda Huckins; [BS] = Bilgesu Sisman; [PF] = Peter Fankhauser
Transcript
[PF] Welcome everybody. I think we’re going to go ahead and get started. My name is Peter. I work here at Amplify and it’s great to have you all here for tonight’s Alternate Currents panel discussion, Meet Me Where You Are Or How Not to Starve an Artist with our panelists Alex Jochim, Joseph Orzal, Marcey Yates, and Rachel Ziegler and our co-moderators Amanada Huckins and Bilgesu Sisman. They’ll introduce themselves to you in just a minute.
Before that, for anybody who’s joining us for the first time, Amplify works to cultivate resources for artists, organizers, and cultural workers to incubate liberatory ideas across creative disciplines that move our community forward. Alternate Currents is one of our cornerstone programs and is designed as an alternative to a conventional MFA, in which cohort members work together to understand how justice in the arts is interpreted, documented, and enacted. Tonight’s discussion is connected to an exhibition by the same name currently on view at Amplify’s Generator Space in Omaha and is part of an ongoing series that investigates how regenerative economies and alternative modes of exchange and value creation might bring about more just and equitable futures; not just for artists but for everyone.
Our panelists will be in conversation with each other for 40 or 45 minutes. After that, we’ll invite you all to unmute yourselves and open the floor to questions, but the chat function will be active throughout so please feel free to share your thoughts anytime.
I’ll also mention quickly that a video and transcript of tonight’s discussion with links to additional articles and more resources will be posted to the Alternate Currents Blog in a couple weeks. You’ll be able to find it, and a lot of other great discussions like this one, on our website at amplifyarts.org.
So, thank you all again for being here. We really appreciate your participation and willingness to engage in critical discussion with us. Thank you to the Sherwood Foundation, Nebraska Arts Council, and Nebraska Cultural Endowment whose support makes Alternate Currents programming possible. And with that, I’ll pass it over to Amanda and Bilgesu.
[BS] Hi, everyone. My name is Bilgesu Sisman. I currently reside in Cleveland. I'm a film programmer and a researcher, and I've been part of Amplify’s Alternate Currents cohort since last year. And this panel is the culmination of a research project that I started back then, and that ended up being the Meet Me Where You Are (Or, How Not to Starve an Artist) exhibition. This panel is bringing together organizers and art workers who either run, founded, or operate independent art spaces.
Amanda Huckins is my co-host and we’re hoping to have a conversation with these folks to see how they have been working to keep these spaces alive and to support artists as well. We’re also thinking about how these spaces create certain forms of independence or autonomy in their operations and how they create an environment that is more sustainable in the short- and long-term. Amanda, if you want to take over, please go ahead.
[AH] Hi, I'm Amanda Huckins. I live in Omaha, Nebraska, and I am an early education practitioner. I work with toddlers during the day and I am also a poet and a printmaker and have helped run independent and nontraditional art spaces in the past–the Commons in Lincoln for about four years and then Media Corp in Omaha for almost four years. I'm always really excited to have conversations like this about what the future looks like for independent art spaces.
Rachel, would mind introducing yourself?
[RZ] Yeah, my name is Rachel Zeigler and I'm the director of the Church Art House in Omaha, just south of downtown. I worked mostly in public art when I found the space. It was a decommissioned church and I knew I wanted to do something related to art and music in the space. We've been organizing programming here for about six years and just completed our first year of operating as a nonprofit. I still feel like we're slowly evolving, and I’m excited to be in this new chapter.
[JO] Hey, my name is Joseph. I'm an artist and curator. I founded a gallery called NoMüNoMü, which started in D.C., and is now a community space in Baltimore whose aim is to bridge the gap between art and activism and kind of push the boundaries of curatorial projects and exhibitions. We've been in Baltimore for three years and been officially a nonprofit for two, and I think that's it.
[MY] I’m Marcia Yates. I'm a recording artist, music producer, and audio engineer. I'm also the founder of Culxr House, which exists to uplift the community by fostering creativity, culture, and collaboration through the arts. We're dedicated to providing a safe space, inclusive space, for artists and activists and a broader community can connect, create, and organize for meaningful social change. I established Culxr House in 2019. We operated as an LLC first and then we established a 501(c)3 nonprofit and that's how we run our programs now.
[AJ] Hi, my name is Alex Jochim. I am an artist. I'm a photographer and an arts administrator. I founded BFF Omaha in 2012 as Benson First Friday. Our mission is building community through arts engagement. We do a lot of neighborhood focused programming that supports artists and the community in various ways. We're also a nonprofit, and through that, we run a bunch of galleries, artist studios, monthly First Friday art walks, and we founded the Benson Creative District.
[BS] Thank you, Alex. I'll start with a question to set the context for the conversation. So you all have been doing similar work over many years. I want to know, since you started, what have you seen change? What has stayed the same, for good or bad, particularly in regards to how you approach the financial structure of your organization. How have you built community alongside a financial structure that can sustain itself over time without exploiting yourselves and others who you work with?
[AJ] I can start. I founded BFF with a group of artists and I think we're all creatives here. So, we started our programing without funding, without any backing, without any formal organization. And it was really in support of artists at first. And then the whole building community thing kind of came about after we saw that was such a big outcome of what we were doing.
And so we had to start thinking strategically, volunteerism only goes so far, about development and things like that. You know, as you get bigger and bigger, you have to keep thinking in different ways. It's a creative way to problem solve and keep it going.
[MY] Adding to what Alex is saying, we as artists, for me as an artist, I was thinking about myself, right? And the things I need to sustain myself. I needed space to record. Later on, I realized other artists need the same things that I do, you know what I mean? I knew having space of my own goes beyond what my pockets can really sustain. So, we went the nonprofit route to be able to run the programs and services we do that reach a wider audience.
[AH] I echo that. As an artist, you see the gaps and you want to provide for yourself. Then, when you fill those gaps, you end up filling a need for others also. The two spaces that I helped run were just never going to be nonprofits. We already knew that there was a clock ticking. We knew that eventually they would not exist anymore because they were meant to be stepping stones, essentially, to other things. Because we were noticing that the number one thing people seemed to need was space, we just opened a calendar and said, “Hey, if you want to have an event, just email us.”
People just wanted a space where you didn't have to pay money to be. We offered that not as an incubator for our own work, but an incubator for other people's projects that they could then go on to evolve, or start a nonprofit. So, I think it's almost like I feel as though there's some necessity to things that are designed to stay small and be a step on the way to the next thing for people.
[AJ] Yeah. I agree with. I think the reason our organization got bigger is because we didn't want to end what we were doing. There was a point when it could have sunsetted and stayed a kind of ephemeral thing where a lot of artists got opportunities and other organizations grew out of it. We wanted to keep that going though, so we decided to become a nonprofit.
[BS] I want to bring Joseph into the conversation. I think you have a perspective that is a little different. Would you like to talk about your approach?
[JO] I guess my approach was out of necessity in some ways. I was so burnt out and I was annoyed at how sort of gatekeeper-ee people are about space. Like going into a museum where all the security guards are armed. It’s like honestly, the space is just a container.
My thinking was, if the community needs the space, they'll take care of the space. It's just that you need to trust the community. So I guess I started by creating a system that allowed me not to be around so much. We had one key that everyone shared. We set up an email system and people just started putting their events in the calendar and working around other people's events and figuring out how to operate without me having to show up or. And I told people I can't keep mopping and sweeping up after every event and people took care of the space and they’re still taking care of it.
A lot of the organizers who use the space know each other. And there haven’t really been issues so far. I mean, some issues. There have been some issues, but I'm not going to get upset. You know, microphones disappear here and there and power cords. With things like that, you pick and choose your battles.
[BS] That would be a good place to ask about the intersection of art spaces, creativity, and community activism. There's a lot of creativity in activism and organizing so yeah. Can you talk about how social change and that work factors in your space or your programing?
[AJ] We built it into our values and our beliefs statements. I think a lot of artists hold to the idea that art should say something or work to create some kind of conversation or meaning, even if it's not explicitly using the arts as a tool for advocacy. That's something that fell in line with our mission. I think having that broader scope or the flexibility to translate what your mission is to support causes your community values is important for us.
[JO] I think with my space, it was created with an understanding that the art world and the activist world, are uniquely different and have different definitions of politics and different ways of constructing their political realms. Smashing them together is like a difficult thing because a lot of artists don't have a keen political consciousness. They're very used to identity based politics and very superficial things. Whereas activists have a very action-oriented and nerdy understanding of leftist thinking and modes of engagement. So for us, finding ways to bring these two worlds together was the task, I think. And what we’re trying to accomplish is, helping artists understand how their work intersects with more leftist frameworks.
[RZ] For me, I offer the space a lot of times for free. And that’s more of a given with groups that are politically active. Blazing Star Seed Cooperative has space here. They’re, like Joseph said, working at the intersection of urban agriculture and political organizing. They have their finger on the pulse of that world more than I do and I really welcome that aspect into the space.
[MY] For, for us, we like to be flexible and we consider ourselves like a hybrid model, which means that, a lot of times, we're responding to the moment. I feel like that's true of a lot of activism. There's always work to do, right? Being a hybrid and being in the moment helps us bring these realms together. I use this quote a lot; Nina Simone said it. “An artist's duty, as far as I'm concerned, is to reflect the times.”
You know, from my perspective I think that leads into our values and our organizational culture. We’re not just trying to be one thing. We’re acknowledging that artists are members of this community, and community members need space for discussions, right? They need to be able to meet who's going to be running the district, who's going to be in office, you know what I'm saying? They need a space where they can get books or food, and for us, we're trying to create a system that can incorporate those things and respond to all those needs when they come up.
[BS] I want to shift a bit, and take the conversation to a place where we can also start thinking about how to look ahead into the future. From your experiences, what I hear is that all of you started what you do with a specific purpose of putting something out there in the world for yourselves and for like minded folks. You all started with more informal structures, relying on your own volunteer labor, as well as others. And most of you, and we see this all the time, decided to incorporate into a nonprofit after a couple of years of trial and error because this is kind of the avenue that we're given to build structures where you can get some funding.
My research has been focused on how we are plugged into this nonprofit industrial system, not only as artists, but also organizers working to create some kind of change and there are pros and cons to that structure. I think one of the main cons is that it creates these individual entities, right? We have representatives from three different arts organizations here and the very structure of the nonprofit necessitates you work as separate entities, even though you're all applying for the same funding. And you know, because of the business of the day to day operations, there's usually not a lot of time to collaborate, especially when looking forward to the likelihood that funding for the arts, already very meager in the United States, is under the threat of being cut even further.
I'm wondering if you are part of conversations with your colleagues about how to preemptively respond to cuts in funding or about how to create sustainability beyond these traditional systems of funding for the arts.
[MY] I'll speak from my perspective about how we prioritize partnerships. Partnering with other entities that may be more funded than we are is a good way to help folks scale, right? Considering that as small organizations, we can't do everything on our own, partnerships and collaborations are a huge thing, especially with grassroots organizations and organizations aligned with what we’re already doing.
[JO] I'd add to that and say we're considering shifting to a nomadic model and focus solely on partnerships and collaborations. We're still going to maintain the nonprofit, but we need to have a more flexible model, especially with with not knowing what's about to happen. Sometimes being kind of tethered to a space doesn't help. I think flexibility is probably the most important asset we have because there's some scary stuff happening in Congress that will affect political organizations and organizations that support creative organizing. So, it's a kind of a wait and see thing right now.
[AJ] I think adaptability is important, for sure. I also think the idea of locality, or regionality, is really important in creating sustainability. In our neighborhood, we have a lot of businesses and figuring out how to support them so they can support artists is a huge part of what we do.
Also, talking with the City. I went through a whole city planning process and advocated for incorporating the arts and culture in that. More municipal support would be huge. We have the Creative District program in Nebraska. Benson is a designated Creative District and so are a lot of rural communities. That’s something but it's unpredictable, so I think being adaptable is probably the best way to go.
[AH] Speaking of the local, do you see community supported membership models or other forms of community-centric support for what you’re doing? I know applying for grants is a lot of effort to get a big chunk. Getting smaller chunks from more people seems like it might be even more effort. Going forward though, do you think there's space for community-supported models to take root?
[JO] I'm in Baltimore and you know, it's bad out there for people. You need the kind of social climate that can support community-centric fundraising. I think, unfortunately, what I've been seeing is a more fractured social climate that makes it difficult to get there. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think that important social shifts that could make it happen tend to ebb and flow and eventually fizzle because it's a lot of work to sustain those movements.
[AJ] It's a lot of work, but I think it's possible. I think membership and working with community partners, like Marcy said, helps to form relationships and create bonds with people who want to support you. So I think it's possible. We're also in Omaha though, and things are just cheaper here.
[MY] Ultimately, what I've come to terms with is that people want their own. When people are educated and empowered to do it themselves, then they can go create their own. I feel like that's where it's at, right? When they come into the space, they can learn, and then eventually branch off and make their own way.
We need something for us as well. That's just part of it. It's still a business. We can't forget that. And I think people forget that when they hear “community nonprofit,” or “free,” they forget that it is still a business and that it takes people and resources to sustain it, like Joseph is saying. I think all of us can attest to that.
[RZ] I'm also interested in mutual aid as a model. That’s the dream–having a membership program and a network for artists to share assets in an emergency. Maybe that's a whole other conversation, but in some ways, I think it is already built into the way we operate. Everybody’s responsible for a chunk of the expenses here and, because of that, it's more affordable for everybody.
[BS] Should we open it up for questions from the audience? Joy is asking, “What would you recommend to people who aspire to create something like an artist-focused organization, or collaborative artist space?
[JO] Just do it. You're going to face challenges, but you're going to learn from all those challenges and you're going to grow. You just have to do it. And link up with people who have done it before. Get some advisors. That's the best thing. Get around people who are doing it. Have good communication. Form a team. Go to more talks like these.
[BS] Jessie asks, “I know art spaces often have challenges with landlords. What are your thoughts about property ownership as it pertains to legitimacy and autonomy?” I'm going to say if you have a space where you don't have to pay rent, that's the biggest blessing you could ever have, but I'd love to hear what you all have to say.
[RZ] I know I've benefited hugely from being able to own my property. That's like the only way we’re still here. I agree that landlords are tough. You have to get lucky with the right one.
[JO] Yeah, landlords are going to be landlords. I think the most important thing is creating an organizational structure so that regardless of the place, you have the entity, right? That’s a concept I didn't fully understand until I started the incorporation process. The nonprofit, no matter what, no matter where I am, the entity exists as a legal entity and is therefore like a home in its own regard.
[BS] I also want to chime in and share some thoughts related to moving beyond the status quo. I think there’s a lot of advocating to be done for cities to create more affordable spaces for arts and culture organizations. I think this is a space where resource sharing and working across different organizations is an important part of building collective power within the sector and the way to influence city officials and policymakers. I think that’s how we push them to recognize that access to art and culture not only makes cities better places to live, but it is also a basic human right, and it deserves their investment.
[AH] Carlie is asking, “I'm curious about the pros and cons of establishing nonprofit status. When does a grassroots gathering of individuals warrant becoming an established organization? For those of you that have gone through the process, was it worth it?”
[AJ] For me, I feel like the moment happened gradually. I think when you start putting a majority of your time into finding funding versus running your programing, you have to put that into perspective at some point. For me, that was the switchover. I’ve definitely had moments of burnout where all I'm doing is writing grants but, at a certain point, the nonprofit structure does offer a little more stability.
[JO] Yeah, if you have a grassroots style gathering of individuals, make sure one of them likes math and spreadsheets and budgets. That stuff is a nightmare for me but I've worked with people who love it and can just knock it out. Knowing how to navigate those things can make life easier if you're organized and you operate through them. Otherwise you're operating as an individual and, if you're making money, you're going to have to pay taxes on that stuff. So you might as well create entities that help you navigate through those things.
[BS] I also just want to plug in a link to art.coop’s site for anyone who's interested in alternative models for sustainability that organizations across the U.S. and North America are participating in. They do a great job of assessing that landscape and have a directory of affinity groups and organizations too.
I think we’ll leave it there for tonight. This was valuable and I really do hope that strengthening the connections we already have helps make us more resilient against like the very possible and probable resource deprivation that we might be facing in the near future. So thank you. Thank you all for being here and sharing space and sharing your thoughts. Thank you to everyone who joined online. We appreciate you all again for tuning in and will hopefully see you again soon.
*This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
About the Panelists:
Alex Jochim is an Omaha, NE based photographer, community organizer, and gallery operator. He is the co-founder and director of BFF Omaha, a local arts nonprofit building community through arts engagement. He is founder, curator, & co-director of Petshop, a community art space housing artist studios, galleries, co-working & public event space. Through these endeavors, he has also played a role in numerous community events, projects, and programs, including the MaMO Gallery, BFF Gallery, Trudy’s (artist studios and education space), the New American Arts Festival, Omaha Entertainment and Arts Awards, Benson Out Back (alleyway improvement initiative), and the Benson Creative District (2022). He is the recipient of the Cultural Stewardship Award (OEAAs) and Nonprofit Changemaker Award (Greater Omaha Chamber).
Joseph Orzal, a first-generation Washingtonian and graduate of the Corcoran College of Art (2010) with a Master's in Curatorial Practice from MICA, founded NoMuNoMu in 2014 as a space for artists to challenge systemic oppression through creative expression. Over time, NoMuNoMu has grown into a dynamic arts platform, driven by strategic partnerships with prominent institutions such as Long Live Go-Go (Mochella), the Washington Project for the Arts, Transformer, the Phillips Collection, The Hirshhorn, The Martin Luther King Jr. Library, and The Marion Barry Foundation. These collaborations have expanded NoMuNoMu’s influence, positioning it as an emerging arts ecosystem in Baltimore. Focused on inclusivity, radical pedagogy, and wellness, the gallery offers diverse programming that empowers both artists and the community, fostering a space where art and activism thrive together.
Marcey Yates is a hip hop artist and music producer based in Omaha, NE. With a sound that can be described as expressive vinyl hip hop, Yates partially attributes his soulful vibe and sample based production to his influences,Yates is 5x Omaha Arts and Entertainment award winner and a NAACP Freedom Fighter Award and Cultural Stewardship Award. As Marcey has progressed in music over the years he has become more expressive with not only music but art and activism. He has become more adept at expressing his feelings through lyrics and visual art.
Rachel Ziegler is a multimedia artist who works across performance, painting, collage, and mosaic to create works that are layered, colorful, and complex. Using collage techniques of cutting and pasting, she embellishes personal stories while contemplating the role of technology and the mixing of time and symbols. Ziegler graduated from Concordia University in Seward, NE with a BFA in Commercial Art. She is also the founder and director of The Church/Art House, a 501c3 not for profit organization, located in a decommissioned church in South Omaha, whose mission is to inspire creativity and connection.
About the Moderatora:
Amanada Huckins is a Nebraskan poet whose work has been published in booklet form as "Trying to End the War" (merrily merrily merrily merrily, 2017) and featured in A Dozen Nothing (adozennothing.com), among other places on paper and online. In her weekday hours, Amanda is an Early Head Start educator and participates in building the brain architecture for social emotional and cognitive development in infants and toddlers. In addition to her paid work, Amanda is a grassroots organizer who works alongside fellow community members to build self-determination, forge non-transactional relationships, and create radical free spaces (such as past DIY spaces The Commons in Lincoln, NE and Media Corp. in Omaha). She is also a letterpress printer who produces posters and other ephemera in her garage print studio, where she teaches typesetting to anyone who wants to learn.
Bilgesu Sisman is a writer, film programmer, and educator, who has worked in arts nonprofits and academia and has been part of multiple grassroots organizations around anti-capitalism, cooperative economies, and participatory democracies. She currently works as the Director of Cinematheque at Cleveland Institute of Art.