AC Interview | Nathaniel Ruleaux + Jonathan Orozco
Nathaniel Ruleaux (image courtesy of the artist)
Recently writer and art historian, Jonathan Orozco sat down with 2020 Culture Work Fellow and member of the Oglala Lakota Nation, Nathaniel Ruleaux to talk broadly about the complications raised by land acknowledgements within cultural institutions and their ability to affect change outside the sphere of performative activism. Listen below or visit Amplify’s Anchor page to listen on your favorite podcasting service.
Transcription
Interviewer: Jonathan Orozco
Interviewee: Nathaniel Ruleaux
Date of Interview: January 5th, 2020
List of Acronyms: JO = Jonathan Orozco; NR = Nathaniel Ruleaux
[JO] Starting out, just to introduce people, what do you do? I know you're an artist. Do you just do art? Do you do other things? Are you a cultural worker?
[NR] I mean, kind of, I usually say my job title is a visual artist, actor, and educator. I have a Master's Degree in Theater from University of Houston. I’m a classically trained actor. Shakespeare has been what I've done my whole life and I've moved around the country a lot, working as an actor, you know, painting on the side and teaching a lot at the college level and undergrad. When I was in grad school, I taught undergrad. I’ve taught high school and middle school and I've done elementary summer camps. Theater education is also part of what I do.
I had my first kid; my wife and I did. He's like a little over a year. He was a year in July. Since then, we kind of fully transitioned how we were living. We moved back to Omaha and we set it up where my wife works from home and I’m a stay-at-home dad. I take care of Luca all day, and then late at night, I go to my studio and paint until the wee hours in the morning and then kind of start all over. So I'm kind of full time stay-at-home, dad.
Nathaniel Ruleaux, Blood On Their Hands, 2020, Red & black ink with spray paint on watercolor paper, 16”x 20”
Nathaniel Ruleaux, George Means, Nicholas Ruleaux, and Eugene Means at Carlisle; 1888, 2020, Acrylic & gouache on canvas, 22”x 16”
[JO] I know that this is in your bio but what nation do you identify with?
[NR] I'm a member of the Oglala Lakota Nation. My family’s from western Nebraska, but my grandfather grew up on Pine Ridge in South Dakota. We kind of lived out west in that area a lot and he was still out there. He just passed away actually in December. He was still going to the reservation a lot for the doctors and stuff up there and he was kind of closer to that world. We moved, when I was in high school, out here. So then, I was here through college at UNL, and then I've been kind of moving around.
[JO] For readers, when they read this, I just want to make sure that that's sort of recognized.
[NR] I mean, it's like, that's part of the problem right now. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but a lot of names and titles and something I think that's important to a lot of younger Native people, is decolonizing ourselves in a way. Part of that is wanting folks to speak about us like we speak about ourselves, you know using our language. And I think being specific about the Nation is a really important part of that because it's something that hasn't been practiced. It’s a relatively new thing [to ask people to do]. Like if you do, though if you if you're in Omaha, and you're gonna look up the land acknowledgement on the website that everyone passes around, or the text message, you're on Umóⁿhoⁿ land, but it also says Sioux land, or like Sioux Nation land. A recent thing that I learned as an adult is, if you went to the Oglala Lakota like tribal website, they used to say “Oglala Sioux Nation,” because that's our governmental assigned term. “Sioux” is not a term that Lakota people use to refer to ourselves. It means “snakes,” roughly translated. There's a whole lot of different routes to where it has French influences. It's kind of picked up, I think from an Ojibwe word too. So it's this classification given to us by colonizers, mixed with with negative connotations, that we've been referred to as and saying as part of our names for a long time.
It wasn't until a couple months ago I went back to the tribal website and it had been removed, and now it's “Oglala Lakota,” which is what most younger natives, I guess, refer to ourselves as. It's been this big language exploration, in general. If you talk to older Natives, they're going to use “Indians,” like my grandfather, you know, and back on Pine Ridge, most older folks will talk about Native Americans by saying “Indians.” So language, as we've learned and grown and try to take back a little bit of our culture and identity, has really shifted. People ask a lot on Instagram, if they're asking about my art, will ask, “What do we call you? Do we say ‘Native Americans?’ Do we say First Nations?” Your safest term would be “Indigenous,” and then you get “Natives,” if you're thinking of Native America but “First Nations” is a Canadian term that a lot of people aren’t going to identify with. I mean, you're pretty safe with any of those, but language is such an important part of, I think, thinking about these land acknowledgments in a sincere way. And it kind of goes beyond just looking up, whose land you're on on that website, you know what I mean?
[JO] Yeah, I guess I should just ask you what you think about land acknowledgments.
[NR] I think people should do them. I like that they’re showing up here. I think it's good. I think it's the bare minimum, though. Kind of like I was saying before, Native people in this country have gone through genocide at the hands of the US government, and it's the least people can do, but it's not enough to like correct harms or to really bring attention to things. I think a lot of people make good points that sometimes land acknowledgments--if you're just looking up the name and saying it before your thing, your event or whatever is happening--you can make it sound, like people of the past, which is the biggest problem in America, that I think we have. It's weird because the further I get from western Nebraska, in my life, the less people believe Native people exist, you know. I lived in Washington DC for a long time, and the Washington football team, everybody there never got what's wrong with the racial racial slur name of our football team, you know they’re like, “Indians aren't real; they don't don't exist anymore,” and I'm like, “There's plenty here. We’re everywhere.” That's a byproduct of a lot of crazy history through our country. I think, like the first thing, land acknowledgements are important because they acknowledge that we have existed, but I think the thing that people need to get better at is using land acknowledgments to show people that we do exist here right now.
I recently did a virtual takeover of the Union’s [for Contemporary Art] Instagram for Indigenous Peoples Day and month, or Native American Heritage Day and month.When I did that, I did a land acknowledgement post, basically. And I really wanted to go past just looking it up and see who's land you’re on and then you're done. I saw a lot of influencers and Native organizations on Instagram that I really like and admire who were talking about how they think you can improve on land acknowledgments. [They said] know whose land you're on and reach out to them about how to do this land acknowledgement. Talk to them. I also think it's important that you share how your community can connect with those people today, you know. When I did that acknowledgement, I made sure to have the “Omaha Tribe of Nebraska” Facebook page and website on there as ways to connect; ways to get to know the community and interact more. I also had an organization on there that I thought people should donate to that is active in Native issues in the area. So I think connecting people with the people whose land you're on, knowing whose land you are on specifically, is really important. And just connecting today with real people, is the best way to do it, I guess.
[JO] You already touched on this, but what do you see as their shortcomings and what do they do right?
[NR] My biggest fear with them, most of the time is when addressing harms--you know, if someone is using like an appropriate image, or if someone is has committed some sort of wrong, maybe unintentionally or because they were uneducated about their history, our history--a lot of times, the question is, “Well how do I make this right,” and it's almost like going to like a priest or a confessional or something and saying, “What do I do to make this right?” People want to just be like, “We'll do land acknowledgments.” You know, there's a lot of these teams that are using Native mascots still at every level of sports. Several of them are like, “Well, let's do a trade. We'll do a land acknowledgement before the game, you let us keep our chief logo,” It's not about punishment. It’s not about payment. It's about acknowledgement and growth from everyone and education. I think the weakest thing right now is that it really does seem to be like, “Okay, we need to make everybody happy and just get through. Well, we'll do a land acknowledgement before the thing. I'll google it really fast. I'll say it. I'll mispronounce it and we'll move on.” I think if you're sincere about it, it's a great way to make sure that people know that we still exist and we're here, and then help people. Connect and learn and educate, I guess, is what I think its biggest strengths are.
Nathaniel Ruleaux, At the Mountains of Rushmore: Black Hills Gold No. 1, 2020, Linocut print with printing ink & gouache on watercolor paper, 11”x 14”
[JO] What do you think museums should be doing to really honor their acknowledgments and follow through? Do you see it as an issue of representation when it comes to--well not just museums but cultural institutions and universities that use land acknowledgments. Does that mean more shows that feature Indigenous artists, hiring more Indigenous curators and staff, things like that? What do you see? What should be done?
[NR] All of the above. I've been speaking to Native people in our community directly about this, and I think the general vibe I get when talking to people (and we're so happy to be talking) is that we feel very disconnected. Just look specifically at Omaha. There's a very large number of different tribes represented in our city, and there are really good resources to connect, but everyone kind of feels, especially urban Natives, very disconnected. And part of that is, there's not representation, there's not opportunity. I think the more people can connect with each other, and the more non Native people connect to Native people, the better.
If I was at some institutions that wanted to address a harm done, or do better for the Native folks whose land you’re on, you have your land acknowledgement, but your land acknowledgement should be well researched. You should have spoken to someone from that tribe. All it takes is a phone call or an email. You can find anybody's tribal website. I think connecting with an organization, or specific artists, or something is a good idea. But I do think that land acknowledgments, and specifically, a more thought out, sincere [land acknowledgement]--you do a really good land acknowledgement as part of your event or your art show or your gathering; you've found the name of the specific tribe whose land you're on; you've talked about them; you've connected people; you've maybe pointed out an organization to donate to or to get involved with or an event to participate in--you've done the bare minimum of addressing the harms done. You've done the bare minimum of some sort of activism. Performative activism is something that's very prevalent right now. I think you see it in a lot of different areas. And this has a really big danger of falling into that, I guess.
So the next step is, if you truly want to make change and progress and learn about the needs of people who are in your world, or whose world you are in, you need to [ask some questions]. Is there a Native person on your board? If you're an organization, there should be a Native person on your board. There should be multiple [Native] people on your board, especially if you're somewhere around here. If you're trying to address a harm, if you had a Native mascot and you want to make things right, you get rid of it. You do a land acknowledgement, but speak to the community. Ask specifically the community whose land you're on. Another thing that you can fall into with land acknowledgements is that like part of colonization is putting up a big umbrella with labels. That too is a dangerous thing. So you have, you know, [umbrella terms like] “Indians” and “Sioux.” The more specific you get the better, and the more generalized you get, the less help you're doing. [You’re participating in] convoluting identities. To try and explain that better: if you are doing a land acknowledgement and you're just like, “Okay, well, I see that I'm in this area where like the website has listed Umóⁿhoⁿ and Ponca and Sioux. I'll say ‘Sioux’ because that covers everybody,” or you’re like, “We’re doing a land acknowledgement--we acknowledge that this is native land,” you should look into the specific tribe [whose lands you’re on] because we are different people with different beliefs and different stories and different histories and different tribal governments and different opinions.
It's not my place as an Oglala Lakota man (I can have opinions), but if someone's asking, “Is it cool that my art show is called ‘Omaha Truth,’” or something, it's like, “Don't talk to me about it. Get a hold of the Umóⁿhoⁿ Nation and speak specifically to them because they'll tell you; they'll tell you how they feel. If they don't, then respect their choice to decline to participate.” I just think the more people can understand that Indigenous people are greatly lumped together in our pop culture, in our textbooks, and the more that they can learn about the specific history of where they are, and the people whose land they're on, the more good they can actually do and the more that they can actually get involved. Besides a lack of connectivity, most Native community members who I speak with (I can't speak for everyone in the world), about the art world or life in general, like there's not representation. We're very underrepresented, and there's not a ton of opportunities out there for people. I've been talking to different Native folks in town, and asked, “Hey, was there is there an art show, or a band, or some arts and culture [event] you participated in in Omaha, that you really liked and that featured a Native artist or featured a Native musician?” Most of the time [the answer is], “No, I've never seen it. I've never heard about it. I’ve never been able to go to one.” There aren't examples to show, but there are plenty of Native artists and musicians and people here. We're just not connected and not represented. People don't want to hear that a lot, mostly out of guilt.
I think land, people wanting to do land acknowledgements is a good thing. It's been a staple of these other nations of Canada, Australia, New Zealand for a long time. As we try to come to terms with who we are as Americans, part of that is acknowledging the truth and history. The only way you can heal after being sick, is to find out the truth and the facts and understand where you are and where you've been.
I think that it's the bare minimum. I think that we can make them better but I hope that it's the first building block in a bright future of Indigenous representation and connection.
Visit the links below to connect with and support Indigenous organizations in the region:
and nationally:
*This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Nathaniel Ruleaux is an artist currently located in Omaha and a member of the Oglala Lakota Nation. His work combines wild movement and traditional indigenous imagery in an expression of anger at the state of this nation. In addition to creating visual art, he is a classically trained actor and educator. He received his MFA in Theatre from the University of Houston’s School of Theatre and Dance after receiving a BA in Theatre Performance at the Johnny Carson School of Theatre & Film at the University of Nebraska–Lincoln.
Jonathan Orozco is an art historian and independent arts writer in Omaha, Nebraska. He received a BA in art history from the University of Nebraska Omaha in 2020. He regularly contributes to The Reader, and has published reviews in White Hot Magazine and NAD NOW, the Journal of The National Academy of Design. Orozco also runs a blog called Art Discourses, which primarily covers Midwest artists and exhibitions.